Comments on The Overflowing Cup: Crime and Punishment

Tanya, I like that idea! I think for us, the main...

2009-07-23T13:53:29.282-05:00

Tanya, I like that idea! I think for us, the main thing is to keep mixing things up, as one strategy doesn't work for more than a few weeks.
I miss you too!

Here is what we are "trying" to implemen...

2009-07-23T13:48:30.781-05:00

Here is what we are "trying" to implement. My three oldest children each have a jar. They start with five marbles and for each infraction(sassiness, slow obedience, hurting...) they must remove a marble. The children can earn more marbles by using extra kind words, gestyres and helps. Also for quick to respond obedience and doing things w/o being told. The marbles are used for ganing privledges like going outside, art time, snacks, movie time, extra activities... if they have no marble then they may not do what they are wising to do. However, we do give a 'spank' with the spoon for willfull disobedience and hot sauce for sassing. These two are mostly used with my #3 child who has a very hard time in these areas.

Sarah I love reading your blog. Miss you!
Tanya

I definitely do not think that the adults should b...

2009-07-07T21:11:54.769-05:00

I definitely do not think that the adults should be subjected to the same punishment as the children - at least not within the children's view - I think this would put you too much at their "peer level" and undermine your authority as a parent. There is something to be said about a child's illusion that their parents are perfect - not that I'd try to keep this up for them - but a bit of it isn't bad at all. A shallow awareness that their parents aren't perfect is, I think, enough for them to understand you make mistakes too just like they do - without having to be confronted with it on a daily basis. If your wrongdoing involves the child, that is different and should be addressed with them, but otherwise, I don't think they need an accounting from us - maybe just some examples now and then to prove that we are fallible. I think a child could be made to feel insecure if they were constantly being made aware of their parents' faults.
If you're having trouble with a particular "sin", discuss it with your spouse and let them pick the punishment if you deem one necessary.

I'm not saying that I want my kids to give me ...

2009-07-07T15:58:53.806-05:00

I'm not saying that I want my kids to give me timeouts or anything and I didn't give Jack permission to do that. I guess I should have explained more or perhaps I'm just way off base. I want Jack to know that if he hears me saying mean things about other people or to other people that he should feel comfortable telling me that I'm wrong. I think kids have a better ability than adults to see when a line has been crossed. One night I called Wesley a silly name and Jack told me that I shouldn't call people names. He said it very innocently. Another night when I was furious with Jack he told me "But you're s'posed to take care of me." I paused and reevaluated my approach.

What I meant in whether or not the adults get the same punishment is that if one of you is acting inappropriately or saying something you should be saying or being disrespectful shouldn't there be a punishment for everyone? I doubt, Sarah, that you are saying adults can act in ways that kids can't but how do we demonstrate that to our children?

Yeah, we've decided that it's Samuel and J...

2009-07-07T15:15:42.556-05:00

Yeah, we've decided that it's Samuel and Josiah who are really twins, by a fluke born 6 years apart. They look so much alike!

Right. So much easier to just say, "Ok, that...

2009-07-06T22:13:45.496-05:00

Right. So much easier to just say, "Ok, that's blackout!" We've actually been working on very defined consequences for our move to my in-laws. I'm a bit afraid (knowing specifically how certain family members try to "helpfully" chime in) that our kids will end up feeling like they're being bombarded by adults. It just ends up being a bit overwhelming to have correction happening from six points of view. Brendan and I know the routine, and the kids do, too, but I think it will help the transition a bit to have things written down. (And yes, there will be six adults because Brendan's cousin and sister also live there, although Allison is just there for a few weeks til her new apt opens up.) It should be interesting...
By the way, we were out of hot sauce today so Brendan used Worcestershire sauce. Not spicy, but on it's own it's pretty rude. ;)
Oh, and it's not a child's job to correct his parents (although I do think that sometimes it works once the child has been properly formed). That's what spouses are for. Although I've found it very helpful to ask my kids for forgiveness when I know I've totally blown it. It's good modeling--and Brendan and I always publicly apologize if on a rare occasion we've publicly messed up between the two of us.
Good topic, as always. I love the updated photos of the kids! Josiah really looks like Samuel in one of the shots. Darling boys!

Molly, I like the blackout idea. That wouldn'...

2009-07-03T21:51:52.149-05:00

Molly, I like the blackout idea. That wouldn't be such a mouthful as, "THAT"S ENOUGH!! YOU JUST LOST EVERY PRIVILEGE FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE!! I MEAN DAY!! NO TREATS, NO SNACKS, NO EXTRA STAY-UP TIME, NO PLAYTIME, No..."

Sean, I think that saying the reading time, chores...

2009-07-03T21:50:07.700-05:00

Sean, I think that saying the reading time, chores, schoolwork, Bible verses are a punishment would be inaccurate (on my part). More correctly, a discipline, or a "correction" to negative behavior. Helps them to refocus on something that's positive. I have a workbook of sentences that helps them practice their handwriting. I just assign them a page when necessary. Removes them from the situation and is a lot more productive than the "naughty chair". I don't think these things are used in a way in which they'll associate it forever with the unpleasantness of being punished.

Parents do not get the same punishment at our house because if we encouraged our boys to point out our naughtiness, there would be a lot of disrespectfulness to deal with. I think I'd prefer to be aware enough when I screw up in front of my children to go to them and apologize. I just can't see my children communicating to me that I've done something wrong and managing to do it in an appropriate way. I know Jack has a vastly different temperament than my older ones, so maybe this is different for you.

I don't have time to say much now, perhaps lat...

2009-07-02T23:34:02.964-05:00

I don't have time to say much now, perhaps later, but just a couple of things. We definitely use jobs for discipline--the jobs I use, though, are the extra jobs that aren't ordinarily expected of the kids or even done by me...like cleaning doorknobs and light switches. I will often use sentence writing for disrespect. I haven't done this yet because of the ages of my kids, but eventually, I will have the kids look up synonyms for respect, honor, etc and write out the definitions. We also use hot sauce for sassiness and call it "sassy juice." :)
Another of my "favorites" is blackout. If for some reason the behavior is out of control blackout wipes out all privileges for whatever amount of time I decide is necessary.

Not a bad idea. Just a couple things: First, I...

2009-07-02T08:29:32.487-05:00

Not a bad idea. Just a couple things:

First, I'm not a big fan of making chores, schoolwork, reading time, or Bible verse memorization a punishment. IMO - These are things that we should teach our children to do out of necessity to be a better person. I fear that using them as a punishment just reinforces the negative, especially with chores and homework. I do like your toy hiatus idea.

My question is, do the parents get the same punishment? I've been trying to encourage Jack to tell me when I'm talking disrespectfully or doing something "naughty."

(First comment!!! Woohoo!)