Comments on The Overflowing Cup: Sunday service

I definitely don't want to sound like things outsi...

2008-09-04T13:33:00.000-05:00

I definitely don't want to sound like things outside the body are more significant than ministries inside the body. I guess the important thing is to step out and be obedient to where God wants you. Just seems like sometimes it's so skewed with all these ministries for us believers inside our cozy little churches and very little ministry being done outside in the "real" world.

Yes, the specific examples help, although I alway...

2008-09-04T13:14:00.000-05:00

Yes, the specific examples help, although I always have more questions - that's just me :)

I think the ministry you mentioned is fantastic, and I happen to have an insider view. But I dare reckon it no more significant in God's eyes to serve within that "group" compared to those who cheerfully and quietly refill the Sanctuary supplies.

When I speak of "Unreached peoples" I am strictly referring to those families, clans, and nations - scattered in every geographic place - without any gospel witness.

In my opinion, the "broader body" of Christ, or the church universal, is only unreached or at risk of spiritual decline if and when the local church fails to minister to and through its regular members.

There are and always will be needs in any local body that may exceed the "resources" of that local body(I've got examples of this that I could share in person if you wish). Then the universal church is charged with the mandate of supporting one another in love.

Such benevolence to total strangers who share simply a common faith and spiritual bond of peace is often what gains us credibility to reach out in the world to the lost among us. See Acts 2:42-47, and Acts 4:32-35 for primary textual support.

Thanks Lance. I did know about the benevolent fun...

2008-09-03T20:37:00.000-05:00

Thanks Lance. I did know about the benevolent fund - it was just a bit ironic coming on the tail end of his sermon.
When I said "the church's responsibility" I was referring to our church or any Bible-believing church. Later when I said "outside the church", I was loosely referring to people outside the body of believers you worship with each Sunday, but yes, also outside the Church, as in the more broad body of believers. Unreached people. I believe we as believers get a lot of practice at and are fairly adept at ministering to fellow Christians - and there are plenty of groups inside the church whose job it is to do this (such as the addiction ministry that is being started). However, we tend to stick to that and call it ministry in the fullest sense of the word. And I don't want to downplay that. It is very necessary. But it is not the end-all. If more Christians reached out to the un-churched, rough, dirty, poor...maybe we'd have less problems within the church - there's just less time to concentrate on self, which eliminates a lot of those sins that believers seem to so easily get caught up in and need ministry for.
When we are serving, our eyes are focused outward - and upward - not inward. So many of our "problems" we would find would just not be perceived as very important or would just completely disappear in the face of this service.
Hope I'm more clear here.

Thanks for being honest with this, you've said a l...

2008-09-03T17:43:00.000-05:00

Thanks for being honest with this, you've said a lot and I couldn't address it all now on dinner break...

If memory serves me correctly, the benevolent fund has almost always (and, possibly, always) been collected following the morning services on the last Sunday of each month.

I'm slightly confused over your use of the word "church" - simply because it's often vague in English (not because I doubt your biblical maturity, which is evident). Could you clarify what you mean in the fifth paragraph:
"I think...the church's responsibility should be to point the congregation toward real live service opportunities - OUTSIDE the church -.."
By "real live" do you mean opportunities to offer your gifts as service to God that are primarily/exclusively outside the building (i.e. geographically distant) OR primarily/exclusively to "unreached" people that lack any level of personal faith relationship with Jesus Christ - i.e. outside the Body?

You're asking some very relevant questions and I just want to make sure I'm really grasping the crux of what you're presenting so I don't make a reasoned response based on a flawed understanding of your premises or assumptions.

I've got plenty to say but not more time tonight, yet I think we'd have lots of common ground on this topic.

Yes, yes, yes! I agree with you about service outs...

2008-09-02T14:30:00.000-05:00

Yes, yes, yes! I agree with you about service outside the church as well. I am the same way, I would help if somebody just told me where to go and what to do. Judy Westrum was good about service and got Justin to help out awhile back. Will have to look into this a litte more...